What I Know about Charlie Kirk:
Dr. Dwight A. Moody interviews Dr. Matthew Boedy
Matthew Boedy is the world’s leading expert on Matthew Kirk. His book, The Seven Mountains Mandate: Exposing the Dangerous Plan to Christianize America and Destroy Democracy, was published this month by Westminster John Knox Press. Dr. Boedy is professor of Rhetoric and Composition at the University of North Georgia. He also serves as president of the Georgia chapter of the American Association of University Professors. For more information or contact, see www.matthewboedy.com
Dr. Boedy was interviewed by Dr. Moody the week of September 25, 2025. Below is an edited version of that email exchange, with Dr. Moody’s questions in italics and also some explanatory notes in italics.
What or who got you interested in, first, Christian Nationalism, and second, Charlie Kirk?
I have been writing about Turning Point USA (TPUSA) and Charlie Kirk since 2018 as a result of being on its professor watchlist in 2016. My work started as a blog then developed in other ways. I wrote a long piece on its 10-year anniversary in 2022 that generated some attention to me and my research.
“Professor Watchlist” is a public and formal archive of professors around the country who have been identified by students as saying, teaching, or writing something that violates the values and policies of, specifically, Turning Point USA and, more generally, the Christian Nationalist movement. The Watchlist website includes this statement: “Please send tips and information on Matthew Boedy to wa********@***sa.com.”
When Kirk moved TPUSA into Christian Nationalism in 2019 and 2020, I recognized it right away as a scholar of religious rhetoric. At that point, my hobby turned into a full-blown research agenda that led to the book.
Have you met and/or interviewed Charlie Kirk? Is so, what is your impression?
I have not shaken his hand or interviewed him. I have been in several rooms in which he was speaking. I have of course also watched or read most every word he has spoken for several years. He’s obviously well-read, smart, charismatic, and of course knows how to answer hostile questions. I also think that while he has had many good advisors that have helped him make TPUSA be what it is, his education in the last few years has been limited to those whom he agrees. He got the education he asked for. I think he would have done well in college, but I think not going – or not being able to go – has been a large chip on his shoulder that in part motivates his hatred of higher education.
Kirk also was, from what we can see, a good father and husband. At such a young age, he knew how to avoid some of the trappings of youth and fame. But, at the same time, his Christianity has been warped by his Trump sycophancy. He’s gone further and further right – and that doesn’t matter as much as the way in which he has done it. It’s hardly all love and compassion.
Tell us how you got on his watch list and what came of that.
I was put on the TPUSA Professor Watchlist for writing an opinion piece against allowing concealed guns on campus. In Georgia, we were debating in 2016 a bill that indeed did pass the next year. Georgia is one of 12 states that allow it, I think. TPUSA is a fervent defender of guns. I was on the original list of 100 professors and my bio on their website has been updated over the years, especially as I continued to write about Kirk. I have not faced harassment on the scale of others who are not white or male like me. But the AAUP has used me to help others know how to respond to the list’s harassment.
What about the Seven Mountains? How did this happen? And how does it express itself in Kirk’s organization?
Seven Mountains Dominionism is a popular moniker for a certain type of Christian Nationalism. It asserts that Christian people need to take control of the seven mountains of cultural influence (family, religion, education, business, government, media, and arts & entertainment) as a way to turn the United States toward its origin and destiny as a Christian nation.
In 2019, Kirk was persuaded to take on the Seven Mountains by Rob McCoy, the pastor of a calvary chapel megachurch in California (and the first speaker at the Kirk memorial service in Phoenix). I honestly think McCoy was looking for a young millennial influencer to whom he could pass along the Seven Mountain leadership. Before this, Kirk had been one to specifically mix religion and politics.
Kirk turned to Seven Mountains almost immediately, speaking with McCoy, using some of his lines. After college campuses closed in 2020, Kirk toured churches and pastors who were McCoy allies. In 2021, TPUSA gave donors a prospectus with the seven areas they were expanding into, and these matched the Seven Mountains. Kirk made a famous speech at CPAC in 2020 where he mentioned the “seven areas of cultural influence.” He also networked extensively with pastors who are in the New Apostolic Reformation and had them speak at TPUSA events. He has also over the years used lines in tune from the movement.
The New Apostolic Reformation is a (mostly) Pentecostal expression of Christian Nationalism. It is a network of ministers (often called Apostles) and their freelance organizations and events that depend heavily upon prophecies about the future with a focus upon both religion and politics.
How do you assess what has happened to Kirk and TPUSA over last 2 weeks? And do you think TPUSA will flourish without Kirk?
I have been saying TPUSA is built to last. The seven areas that they have arms in will be the funnel that collects all the new interest and money. Some organizations that lose their founder fade over time, and maybe that will happen to TPUSA. But I think it’s secure and will grow for several more years as its allies are empowered in each of those seven areas. Erika Kirk, his widow, may be the closer with donors, but they have plenty of people to keep doing its work.
That said, you don’t replace Charlie Kirk. It will take the state of Utah several years to execute the shooter. As long as he is alive, the emotions of Charlie’s death will sustain TPUSA. Martyrdom rhetoric is already being used to enforce policy in his name. Soon there will be laws to honor him; some will win elections invoking his memory.
TPUSA is the group all the other (right wing political) groups want to latch on to now, even the GOP. I think that alone keeps it going well into the next presidential term, 2028.
